Making Sense In the Mess: Leadership for a Turbulent Time

Daniel Atlin, guest · [02:39]Thanks, Hugh, and it's great to be here with you today. So let me just say that the mess is not one thing, it's actually a multiple, list of things. It's about technological, change in AI, economic uncertainty, it's about polarization, changing expectations of institutions, along that with, with reduced trust and, resource constraints. It's about multiple stakeholders who want different things, and of course, you know, like all of us, an information overload. And it's about people themselves who are bringing fear, History and fatigue and other expectations into the system. So the mess is not necessarily a problem waiting to be solved. It's actually most of it is much to be navigated. So, you know, we've spent lots of time talking about leaders needing to be able to solve problems, but many of the things that we're, that are happening today are things that actually can't be solved by any leaders. So there are situations involving competing values, incomplete information, changing conditions, and a multitude of different people who see the world differently. So leadership is increasingly the view of making sense of the uncertainty that we're in, rather than simply making decisions.

Hugh Ballou, host · [10:30]It, it can drive us into a culture where everybody wants to be critical or blaming because they're afraid of the uncertainty. So take a minute and, and describe, the practical habits of a leader who is a strong Sensemaker.

Daniel Atlin, guest · [10:50]So I think, you know, that's a great question, Hugh, and, and it's at the heart of my research as well. So, you know, a great Sensemaking leader does two things, you know, at the same time, and they're anchored, it's anchored by purpose, and that's the purpose of yourself, but also tied to the purpose of the institution you're leading as well. And it's actually about, you know, making sense of, of yourself, and that's what I call sort of inner Sensemaking. So it's being aware of actually how you show up. It's being aware of, of, of, you know, what you're observing around you as well, and how you're observing your own reactions. It's about recognizing how you show up under stress. It's recognizing the biases that you have that you bring into the table as well. And it's also taking a pause you need to be able to understand things when, when things are going too quickly. As well. And then it's also about, making sense with others too. And that's about, you know, trying to sort of see how others are, are interacting together too. And you do this through things like, you know, exploration and map making, where you actually gather all the data together, pull it all together, create a story. but it's also all about how you actually can, can cultivate things that, that, that are within your team and your organization to being better improvisers and inventors as well. And finally, I think, I think it's really important, as you say, to bridge divides by being adaptive and, and a collaborator too. So, so it's two things together, which actually are, are, create a, actually a really great, sense-making leader.

Hugh Ballou, host · [13:29]And we assume people remember the same things we remember, and so the purpose, I find that it's important that we all remember our purpose, our guiding principles, what, what is it that, that binds us together in our, what we value and what the results that we value. so let's, building on what you said about the inner Sensemaking, so we've got these things that come into our world like fear, disappointment, fatigue, and then Our self-awareness, you talked about that too, so let's blend these two ideas together. So we've got these things that happen to us, just had a death in the family, that's an emotional reaction. Just got back from a long weekend with relatives, celebrate my birthday, that's, you know, I'm tired today. So we show up, we're not the perfect human being, so giving ourselves a little breathing room, but then there's that. So how do we have self-awareness? We talked about the blind spots, the biases, well I put that blind spots with biases, so there's things we don't see. How do we improve that self-awareness and deal with all these emotional issues that come to us?

Daniel Atlin, guest · [14:37]Yeah, great question. And I think a lot of that is done through, you know, self-reflective activities, whether it's journaling, whether it's actually sending voice notes to yourself. You know, it's going through some exercise and actually noticing what you did when, you know, things went wrong in your life. or when things went really well. So they'll teach you about, you know, you know, what, what, what, where you tend to go when, when, you, you experience failure or exhaustion perhaps. So it's actually being aware of, of what got you here, and, but recognizing that those things may show up actually when you're in a similar situation. And I think sometimes it's, you know, creating as well your own sort of personal resilience story about, you know, understanding when you had a point, and perhaps when you were at one of your low points, perhaps in your life or in your career, what did you do to actually, you know, you know, get out of that, right? And maybe it was actually took, took a while, maybe it would took time with friends, but realizing what I think carries you through, is so, so important.

Daniel Atlin, guest · [16:27]I think it's important for leaders to understand, especially in nonprofit organizations or, or, or, or in, in, in, in clerical situations, that you're the steward. You're not the organization itself. And so oftentimes, you know, in other organizations, those get conflated and, and, and, and can be seen as the same thing. But you realize that you're actually there by your position, you're there because of your experience that you bring as well and what you've achieved, but you're also there by the grace of the other people that, that, that are in the organization as well. So it's the trust that's been created too. So I think, you know, it's important to recognize that effective leaders really care about, passionately be able to know the mission of the organization, but they realize that they are the stewards and their personal identity is important because it gives them credibility, but it doesn't have to be wrapped up in the organization. But I think also organizations can actually, you know, make people conflate this together too, because you have boards sometimes that say to a new, a new sort of, executive director or a leader of an organization, create a strategic plan for me. And then it actually, that plan almost becomes, you know, personified, right? It almost becomes the, the product and, and the position of, of the person rather than the organization. So I think boards have to flip that around and say that, you know what, this, this strategic plan is actually for the organization, not for the person, and it should actually survive perhaps the position, the person in that position.

Hugh Ballou, host · [17:54]So we also have the danger of getting locked in without being flexible. So this self-awareness has multiple, multiple layers and multiple, impact on human beings, right?

Daniel Atlin, guest · [18:07]Absolutely it does. Cause you're right, you know, I, I'm not a huge flat, fan of these Massive five-year to ten-year strategic plans, especially done in academic institutions, there tend to be laundry lists of, of initiatives you're already doing, and they want to satisfy all the different sort of internal, stakeholders. I think, you know, instead it's better to have a strategic plan that's, maybe three years long, and maybe it's actually directional with, with three, or four different sort of, sort of key things, and that are, that actually provides a framework as well for you to answer what new thing that's coming up should we take on or should we let go? It's actually a tool for you to determine, you know, you know, what to actually use and what to actually discard.

Hugh Ballou, host · [19:01]So let's talk about, Psychologist, psychiatrist, excuse me, Murray Bowen, had the concept of Bowen family systems. It's the antithesis of Freud and Jung, but it's, it's, it's about leadership, really, and he has his eight concepts, and he talks in there about differentiation of self and remaining calm. So the leader in your system is the anchor in a, in a period of turbulence, and, and Bowen says our anxiety is transmitted through the whole culture, and it comes back to us, and then we have triangles and relationships, and the anxiety goes around the triangles. So talk about the leader being the anchor in time of turbulence.

Daniel Atlin, guest · [19:44]absolutely. I think, I think somebody, had described it quite well to me, I think, and they said the leader has to hold the uncertainty and tension on behalf of the organization. So in some ways, I, I think that they have to be the one that actually, you know, Deals with some, some of this, this negative, I guess, karma sometimes that's, that's out there and be able to actually be able to, to, to process that as well. Not take it on necessarily, but be able to process it. And that I think is why it's especially important that inner sense making, you know, which is making sense of yourself, because you're aware that you have to actually process this. You're aware that you actually have to sit with it sometimes. Sometimes you have to find a way to push it to the side. Sometimes the way you have to, you have to find a way to reframe it as well. But it's so important because, and I don't think leaders are, are traditionally taught this as much, Hugh, that, that the importance of making sense of yourself actually, you know, when you were in an organization. But when you think about it, organizations are all, you know, just, just collections of people. And as you say, one person's reaction has a multiple effect on, on, on those network of people that you're associated with. So therefore, especially the leader has got this real power of emotions that can actually derail things, I'd say, and actually creates a little bit of challenges for an organization if they're not aware of it.

Daniel Atlin, guest · [21:32]Well, if I had the magic answer for that, I'd be, I'd be, I think, you know, you know, Sitting on a beach somewhere, I think. you know, and I, and I think that the real answer is, is trial and error, Hugh. I, I, I think, you know, you have to make certain that you're not exhausting, you know, you know, you know, the organization, as you say, by taking on too much as well. I think organizations, especially, you know, social purpose organizations, nonprofits, et cetera, have a problem with that art of subtraction, taking out things actually that, that are not necessarily perhaps as important today as they were last year, and recognizing to reframe and reposition resources, you know, to go, to go forward. So that's why that sort of map making and actually strategic planning should be ongoing rather than actually an exercise that goes once a year and gets blessed to the board. It actually needs to be continually, I'd say, you know, addressed and tinkered with to be able to make certain that, you know, you're actually have the right framework.