What shapes the leaders we become? | Nkulu Madonko

Nkulu Madonko, guest · [02:49]If I was to give my working definition of identity, it's not only about labels or, or categories, but it really is about the deeper questions. Who have I learned I need to be in order to survive, in order to belong, in order to succeed, in order to be safe, good old Maslow's hierarchy of needs, or to be loved? And, and how is that Still showing up in my leadership today. And this, that's a profound question. I think if I double click in that area, very often what we call leadership style is actually a set of strategies that we work with. So if I think of my own strategy that I've developed over time in my leadership journey in the human capital space, you begin to understand, you know, what is, what does a high control leader look like? What are people pleasing looks like from a leadership point of view? What does a silent leader look like? What is a leader who over functions looks like? A leader who avoids conflict, you know, how do they show up in the world? Those aren't just styles. Those are about deeply learned surviving and managing meaning mechanisms that they developed over time. So for me, when I go into the construct of, of identity, it's really about not those labels. It's really how do I show up in my leadership today?

Nkulu Madonko, guest · [04:31]I was born, in Zambia, fifty-four years ago, in February. And with, with that, I grew up on a farm context. And, because of that, experience, my parents had to think quite carefully around the quality of the farming school makeup versus the education they felt that I needed to get. And they, and they made a very, specific decision, to ship me off to, to the, to, to Great Britain, because my mom is, is white British, and my late dad is a black Zimbabwean in Debele. So that's his culture, my mom being British. They met in Zambia and raised me on a farm, but had to send me to a UK boarding school at a, an age of six. And so for me, I think of that experience at that early age, it was an experience of dislocation, if I can describe it that way. There was a sense of rupture, in my life. And, and it's only actually as I reflect on that now at this age, and I look back to that experience, that's what it represented. In the, in the moment, in the time, I remember just feeling desperately homesick. But as soon as I connected with my schoolmates, when I arrived back into the school system from my holidays, felt integrated and, and assimilated fairly quickly. But I learned that I needed to survive in this particular environment. I learned I needed to adapt in that environment. And so I think that has manifested itself to where I'm at now. I've developed coping mechanisms, strategies specifically to deal with and contend with, that young six-year-old growing up, away from his parents. And, and my dad being a political activist at the time, even though I relocated back to Zimbabwe at the age of about 11, My dad had to go into exile post-independence revision to Zimbabwe. And so for 12 years, he had to go into, into refugee status in the UK and Greece. And so I had an absent dad in the home. So it was just my mom and my two sisters. So if I think of my adult self engaging with that six-year-old child, there's a lot of pain and hurt that's there. And I'm navigating that as I'm speaking to you right now, Daniel, speaking very vulnerably. The therapy construct, carefully guided through a specialist in terms of psychotherapists, helping me understand where those strategies are leaking and how to contend and cope with those. And so I think the implications are from an identity belonging and safety and my leadership, all those things are being affected from, from that experience. So that's a bit of my background and, and the implications it has for, for my life as I see it.

Nkulu Madonko, guest · [14:53]If I think of a, of a story, Daniel, if you indulge me, I was facilitating a diversity, what we call diversity and cohesion, workshop with my actual HR team. And, I had a story around, the apartheid, post-apartheid, moving into the school structure where we found riots taking place in the schools in the history of South Africa, and, and relaying that story around tear gas, rubber bullets flying around. And I noticed that one of the gentlemen, who happens to be a white male, reacting, with, with a visible discomfort, and a black female across from him actually started weeping. And I was also relating this, you know, what, what we saw transpiring in the South African history. And so I gently checked in with both of them. The gentleman was a young police reservist who would be deployed into those school situations, not knowing that that's what he's going into, but that's, he was part of those forces, as it were, those police forces. And that was their practice, you know, disband riots, disband, any protest. And, and as I was relating, he was relaying that story, the young lady was weeping. And I asked gently what was her story, and she was one of those school members who would, you know, jump fences, run from the rubber bullets, run from the tear gas, tear gas, and bringing those two worlds together in a structured and, and facilitated conversation, which was amazing to notice and witness. So the privilege of doing that, but at the same time, what manifests in a, in a world, suffice to say, you know, that really helped break the, the silos, break the disparate lived experiences, unified in a shared story, from one perspective and another perspective, but just to suffice to say they worked well from their own, it, it really helped. but those are some of the examples where I'm having to facilitate that and hold that space and contain it appropriately, and that takes a massive amount of energy and skill. and, in those moments, I find myself, you know, sometimes weeping, just like, wow. That's, that's people's reality and, and sometimes triggered me in terms of my experience of, of what I found to be racist, specifically high school, but that's for another podcast, and possibly not for sensitive listening.

Nkulu Madonko, guest · [19:45]that, that word pause, and I'm reminded of Viktor Frankl and search for meaning, and he talks about the space, which equates to my understanding of pause. And so we're constantly bombarded with stimuli. And as a leader, I've got stimuli coming at me all the time. And the quality of my response to that stimuli is determined by the quality of my pause or the space for Viktor Frankl around finding the freedom in there. And so then I'm informed around the decision I need to make, and I can do it in freedom. And so there is that, that pause element that we, in the coaching construct, I, I, I, I surface that with the client, and they sit in, in that reflective place. Do I work from system one thinking, which is instinctual? And so, you know, the brain Is wired to save and conserve energy, and so you work from the gut, and that typically serves us in most instances because the idea is the brain wants to conserve energy, short circuit everything, and to get to a decision point quickly. So that's system one thinking. But it's getting them to understand system two thinking, where you create the pause, where there's actually a thinking process that needs to take what's happening within self, if I'm triggered by a client, how do I hold that? So that's not about me, it's about the client, et cetera, et cetera. But when it comes to the client and how they lead, what are they sitting with, and help them understand, well, what does that look like and feel like, and what's the impact potentially on my responses? And so through powerful pondering questions, invite them to surface those and bring them to the visible place.

Nkulu Madonko, guest · [22:09]If we allow ourselves the notion that we can create the space, we don't have to experience the rush. I don't have to see through a 45-minute meeting or a 60-minute meeting. If I'm finding myself needing to create space for me to appropriately reflect on before I respond, just to break away, can I pause for this conversation? I need to gather my thoughts or I'm sensing an emotion emerging, which I need to debrief with myself. Could we take five-minute recess? Or could we convene tomorrow morning as an example? And, you know, oftentimes when providing those options and engaging a client on those options, but can I do that in Kudu? Yeah, no, absolutely you can, because you are leading yourself. Primarily in that moment, but also the moment and the experience with the individual that or individuals that you're engaging with. And there's responsibility that you carry, being accountable for how that experience will be, outworked. And if it requires a moment to break away and just to gather your thoughts and take a deep breath, then do that. It'll serve you well. People will respect you for that. They won't see it otherwise. Give it a go and experiment it. It's amazing how many times when they go and experiment and the feedback I get includes that served me well. I did have a tough conversation. It became heated, broke away, came back, and we were both able to calm ourselves and carry on with what we needed to carry. Oh, okay, great. So you noticed that. Well done. so yeah, you're absolutely right, Daniel. Society just drives us harder. And, you know, in a social media, everything's on a TikTok basis and you flip all the time. We don't create the spaces to do that, and we need to, and we need to consciously do that, unfortunately.

Nkulu Madonko, guest · [50:40]If, you know, if there was a parting kind of couple of comments, and so, you know, from a, from an executive, from a leadership, executive leaders listening to this conversation to our podcast, and I think the complexity that, that often leaders, are having to constantly make meaning under pressure, that's all I get in front of me with my clients. There's just so much pressure and they're having to make meaning out of, out of stuff under pressure, and they don't necessarily understand the lenses, through which they interpret reality. so that, and that may lead them, from pattern, so they may lead from pattern, if that makes sense, but rather than from purposes, because can leaders change then? Yes, they can. And I think I have that question, can I, can I shift, can I transform? Yes, absolutely. That's part of the coaching journey is that we want to see transformation, some measure in some form. The answer, you know, to the question, can I change? Yes, as an executive, as a leader, you can change. It's not by trying harder. That's, That's not the, the change that's going to lead to transformation. You know, change often begins with you just becoming aware of the meaning structures beneath your behavior. That's all. And so for me, my journey from six to where I'm now, the meaning, you know, constructs, the structures beneath, you know, who I am and how I behave, where they come from, strategies that are leaking now. And so it's taken me back to that place and, and that reflective practice is super helpful. And so it really is around starting to practice new ways of being. And I intentionally use the word practice because are we going to get it right this time? Of course not. Will it get messy? Yes. But give it a go, you know, and let's journey together. So ready to leaders out there, just know, just give it a go. Practice new ways of being. You'll be surprised as to what emerges.