Messy with Daniel Atlin

Why global health needs collective leadership | Heather Anderson and David Kamau

8 January 2026 · 48 min · as at 2026-01-08

Daniel Atlin (host) · Heather Anderson (guest) · David Kamau (guest)

Themes: Leadership as practice · Adaptability in crisis · Peer networks and burnout · Measuring leadership impact · Equity and power · Non-linear careers and purpose · Collective leadership · Public narrative

Listen to the episode on iono.fm · MP3

About the guests

Heather Anderson

CEO · Global Health Corps

Management consultant through her twenties, then Planned Parenthood Global. Met GHC co-founder Barbara Bush in 2012, spent seven years scaling GHC's leadership programs in Africa and the US, and was asked to step in as CEO in 2019.

In Heather's own words:

“I'm Heather Anderson, CEO of Global Health Corps, and, in terms of origin story, like many fellows and alumni at GHC, I didn't actually start my career in public health.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [02:02]
“And so my first seven years at GHC was scaling and supporting the expansion of our leadership programs in Africa and the US. And then when Barbara transitioned to the board after a decade of service in 2019, the board asked me to step in.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [04:20]

David Kamau

Chief Program Officer · Global Health Corps · Nairobi, Kenya

Career centred on youth development. Almost ten years as an entrepreneur, then part of the team that established the Young African Leaders Initiative, helping lead a network of over twenty thousand young leaders. Three months into his GHC role.

In David's own words:

“So I'm David Kamau. I'm connecting from Nairobi, Kenya, and I'm currently the chief program officer at, Global Health Corps.”
— David Kamau, guest · [05:14]
“after ten years as an entrepreneur, almost ten years, I had the privilege to be part of, of a team that established one of the, the most renowned Africa, you know, leadership programs, the Young African Leaders Initiative.”
— David Kamau, guest · [06:24]
“I had the opportunity to be part of the leadership of the growing Pan-African movement that we were, that we're building, which was a network of over twenty thousand young leaders across Sub-Saharan Africa.”
— David Kamau, guest · [06:41]

Guest details come from the published episode notes or the guest's own words in the episode.

Episode analysis

Analysis by AI, drawn only from this episode; every point links to the moment it rests on.

Daniel Atlin talks with Heather Anderson, CEO, and David Kamau, Chief Program Officer, of Global Health Corps. GHC runs a nine-month fellowship and an alumni network for emerging health leaders in the US and Africa. They discuss GHC's belief that people, not systems, have agency, and the use of Marshall Ganz's public narrative in fellowship training. They cover adaptability during Ebola, the pandemic and the foreign aid cuts, and argue that peer networks prevent burnout. They also describe equity in recruitment and governance, how GHC measures leadership impact, and why leadership investment should not be cut in crises. Both close with career advice centred on purpose and non-linear paths.

Key ideas

Lessons

Who it's for

Leaders and funders in global and public health, nonprofit executives designing leadership programmes, and early-career health professionals facing aid cuts, burnout or career uncertainty.

Facts stated in the episode

Questions this episode answers

In their own words

Longer stretches of the conversation, word for word from the transcript, turn by turn.

Heather's path from consulting to GHC CEO

Note (AI): Shows how a private-sector career led Heather to see the gap in leadership investment in public health and to GHC's leadership.

Heather Anderson, guest · [02:02]I'm Heather Anderson, CEO of Global Health Corps, and, in terms of origin story, like many fellows and alumni at GHC, I didn't actually start my career in public health. I was a management consultant through my twenties, but I came to realize that while I had gained useful skills and experience, as a consultant, I was far more drawn to pursuing a career in gender equity and global health, …

Read the full passage (380 words, 02:02–04:36)

Heather Anderson, guest · [02:02]I'm Heather Anderson, CEO of Global Health Corps, and, in terms of origin story, like many fellows and alumni at GHC, I didn't actually start my career in public health. I was a management consultant through my twenties, but I came to realize that while I had gained useful skills and experience, as a consultant, I was far more drawn to pursuing a career in gender equity and global health, and decided given the persistent inequities that were happening around the world, I couldn't sit on the sidelines any longer. So, I decided to take what I learned in the private sector and figure out this new career path. I first packed up and drove a U-Haul truck to Chicago, from Chicago to Washington, D.C., and after dozens of informational interviews, landed a job at Planned Parenthood Global, which really launched my career for the next 20 years. Since then, I've had the opportunity to work at a number of amazing organizations, live in a number of countries, and continue on to graduate school. And it was in New York City in 2012 when I met one of GHC's co-founders and CEO, Barbara Bush. I was immediately captivated by the vision of building a network of emerging health leaders and equipping them with the skills and resources to unlock their potential and improve health outcomes. Personally, this was meaningful to me because I was inspired, because during my time working in nonprofits, I saw firsthand the lack of investment in leadership and management in public health, especially for early career health professionals. And given that I had started my career out in the private sector, where I had been afforded coaching and trainings and mentorship, I realized that this was such a missing gap, especially in the nonprofit and government sectors. So I saw this as a great opportunity to join an amazing team at Global Health Corps and help build and grow an organization dedicated to investing in the next generation of health leaders. And so my first seven years at GHC was scaling and supporting the expansion of our leadership programs in Africa and the US. And then when Barbara transitioned to the board after a decade of service in 2019, the board asked me to step in.

David's career in youth leadership development

Note (AI): Traces David's twenty years in youth development, YALI and entrepreneurship, and the mentor who first called out his potential.

David Kamau, guest · [05:14]So I'm David Kamau. I'm connecting from Nairobi, Kenya, and I'm currently the chief program officer at, Global Health Corps. Now, my origin story, I think, is, is a little bit interesting because my career and, my life has been centered on youth development, even before I knew that that's the career path I would follow. So early on in my career, I served as a volunteer, working with a, …

Read the full passage (559 words, 05:14–08:02)

David Kamau, guest · [05:14]So I'm David Kamau. I'm connecting from Nairobi, Kenya, and I'm currently the chief program officer at, Global Health Corps. Now, my origin story, I think, is, is a little bit interesting because my career and, my life has been centered on youth development, even before I knew that that's the career path I would follow. So early on in my career, I served as a volunteer, working with a, with a nonprofit that, that trained leaders on how to mentor youth. and then I spent some years after that, working with a private sector company that was building capacity in children and, and young people, as young as eight years old, to, you know, early career. and, and we used to do things like, you know, life skills, emotional intelligence, goal setting, you know, things like that, really setting them up for success. after a couple of years doing that, I transitioned, into entrepreneurship with a good friend of mine, and we set up a, a company, again, focused on youth leadership development. that, over the years, though, we did, you know, several pivots. Ended up working more in the startup space with, with SMEs and more broadly in organizational development. now it's the more recent years in my career that have led me to GHC. after ten years as an entrepreneur, almost ten years, I had the privilege to be part of, of a team that established one of the, the most renowned Africa, you know, leadership programs, the Young African Leaders Initiative. and there, you know, that role allowed me to work with young people across fourteen countries in East and Central Africa. But not just that, I had the opportunity to be part of the leadership of the growing Pan-African movement that we were, that we're building, which was a network of over twenty thousand young leaders across Sub-Saharan Africa. the last part of my work with, with YALI, was in West Africa. I had the chance to, to support the initiative in, Anglophone, West Africa, so based out of Accra in Ghana. And then now here I am, you know, three months into my, the next chapter of, of, of my, of my career, which is at, at GHC. and what drew me in is just over the years with my experience of just how critical leadership and youth leadership development is, that's what attracted me to, to participate and to join GHC. and of all the sectors that really require this and why there's a huge need, the health sector is one of them. But I think in, in, in closing, one of the things that I think really important for me to mention is As I was growing up, I didn't necessarily see myself as a leader or as a leader of leaders, and it took a mentor of mine years ago when I was nineteen to, to see the potential in me and call it out. And that's why for me, you know, I actually did a lot of what I've done over the past twenty years to this one gentleman, who called out that, and, and that's why for me, leadership development is really close to my heart, because I, I can see what a mentor can do, I can see what a, a good leadership development program can do.

Malawi aid cuts and the peer network

Note (AI): A current case of how fellows respond to a slashed health budget, and David's argument that peer networks prevent burnout and keep leaders in the sector.

David Kamau, guest · [14:58]To respond to that question, I-I'd love to reflect on an experience I recently had. So I was in Malawi just a few, a few weeks ago, with our fellows for an in-person retreat. And I, I, I don't know, you know, how much you know, know about Malawi, but it's one of the countries that was hardest hit, you know, in terms of this, foreign aid cuts this year. …

Read the full passage (504 words, 14:58–17:34)

David Kamau, guest · [14:58]To respond to that question, I-I'd love to reflect on an experience I recently had. So I was in Malawi just a few, a few weeks ago, with our fellows for an in-person retreat. And I, I, I don't know, you know, how much you know, know about Malawi, but it's one of the countries that was hardest hit, you know, in terms of this, foreign aid cuts this year. I think it said that over forty percent of its national health budget, was slashed. Right? And so there's, there's definitely a huge need, and many opportunities to shift to a more sustainable, like, locally led approach for health. Now, specific, specifically coming to our fellows and alumni, that has meant for them, in the face of all of these changes, for them to really be adaptable, right, for them to really demonstrate that resilience, for them to, to lean into their, their community, into their network. And it has meant them stepping up beyond their job descriptions, and even starting to think collectively about how they can either fill this leadership vacuums or figure out how to navigate in this new reality that they're facing. And, and to be honest, it's, it's sometimes a little bit bleak for them. and so one of the things that, that, that I, I experienced when connecting with the fellows there is The, just the importance of that network and that community in keeping them standing, keep them moving forward. Some of the things that they did practically to adapt is one, you know, supporting each other as they seek new opportunities, supporting each other as they, as they seek to solve some of the problems that they're facing. and, and so to, to that point, the work that then we are doing as GHC is really absolutely critical for crises like those. and when you think about it, then burnout also becomes a really great challenge, that you've asked. But that trusted network of peers, you know, that's what keeps them going, even when the work can be lonely and overwhelming. And without that space to go to, to reflect and to hone their approaches, impact then can be very limited if they try to go it on their own. and so to be able to provide these spaces, shadows frameworks, the tools, the resources to connect these young people with the coaches and mentors and the peers, I think that opens up possibilities for a lot more sustainable impact. And one of the things, as we've reflected back over ten years, our impact assessment found that because of this, this different parts that, that are around our fellows and alumni to support them and to keep them going, JSC fellows stay in the sector two times, at a rate of two times more than their peers. So this is not accidental, this is by virtue of the network and the support that they receive from each other and from JSC that makes all the difference.

Adaptability as the signature trait

Note (AI): Heather frames leadership as a practice, names adaptability, and illustrates it with an alumnus who called the network his brain trust during the pandemic.

Heather Anderson, guest · [18:34]So admittedly, it's hard to just pick one trait. And at GHC, we refer to them as leadership practices because we talk about how leadership is a practice. It isn't something that you're going to finally achieve at one point in time, but you continue to work on. But one of the ones that I think especially have been relevant of years past and the current time is adaptability. And …

Read the full passage (435 words, 18:34–21:26)

Heather Anderson, guest · [18:34]So admittedly, it's hard to just pick one trait. And at GHC, we refer to them as leadership practices because we talk about how leadership is a practice. It isn't something that you're going to finally achieve at one point in time, but you continue to work on. But one of the ones that I think especially have been relevant of years past and the current time is adaptability. And we've really seen this trait over and over, especially during acute crisis, whether we're talking about Ebola in 2014, the pandemic in 2020, massive foreign aid cuts this past year. And, you know, as we've been talking about, leaders have to operate in constantly shifting environments. You know, job descriptions are thrown out the window, and so being able to understand how to navigate, make decisions, figure out your way forward is really important. And, you know, to share A brief story. One of our Rwandan alumna, Christian Beninama, is an architect. So, you know, we talk about how health have leaders from all different sectors and what we need. And he's the co-executive director and principal at NAS Design Group out of Rwanda, one of our first GHC alums. And he is working to build a generation of architects who are committed to designing clinics and schools that proactively promote health and well-being in Rwanda. So I share this because I remember during the pandemic, and it is as relevant now, I remember having a conversation with him, and he called the GHC network his brain trust. And that it was really his go-to resource for the support during unprecedented times, as you were figuring out how do you navigate budgets, how do you secure PPE, how do you figure out how do you help run an organization and make decisions to be able to move forward in such difficult times. And in his words, he talks about how architecture isn't resilient because it lasts, it's resilient because it adapts. And the same can be said for leadership. And Christian's vision and leadership, you know, has really saved and improved millions of lives over the last 15 years. And so I share this to underscore the ability to be adaptive, in part really can stem from being in a trusted community. As we were just talking about, you know, we see anecdotally and otherwise that isolated leaders can burn out more quickly, they revert to rigidity, they are more likely to act out of fear than conviction. GEC leaders are held up and held accountable by their peers, so they adapt and keep going.

How GHC measures leadership impact

Note (AI): Sets out GHC's theory of impact, short- and long-term measures, alumni investment and the network's reported scale.

Heather Anderson, guest · [27:25]Yeah, I can add that in, you know, 2019, and in general, we have been very nerdy and focused about what measurement and evaluation and impact has looked like because the field of leadership development so much has been focused on an individual, and we really wanted to push the envelope about understanding what collective impact through a leadership approach looks like. And so coming out of a ten-year assessment …

Read the full passage (329 words, 27:25–29:31)

Heather Anderson, guest · [27:25]Yeah, I can add that in, you know, 2019, and in general, we have been very nerdy and focused about what measurement and evaluation and impact has looked like because the field of leadership development so much has been focused on an individual, and we really wanted to push the envelope about understanding what collective impact through a leadership approach looks like. And so coming out of a ten-year assessment in 2019, we created our first in-depth theory of impact. It really was a causal pathway about how our leadership approach strengthens health systems to advance health equity. And we do that from both the short-term approach of evaluating our fellowship Programs, as well as looking at the long-term impact. So if we're talking about our leadership accelerators, what are the growth in their leadership competencies? What are their contributions to organizations? Are they increasing their role? What do the supervisors think of their experience? And from a long-term, because really when we think about the ROI, and this is why we spend a third of our programmatic expenses on the alumni part of our program, because we know that the start of the fellowship is just the beginning, that it's really going to be throughout the course of their career where we can continue to see what this ripple effect looked like. You know, we've seen 16 years in that, as we're sharing, the alumni are remaining tightly connected, and that 70% of them report that they are working professionally together. As we were talking earlier, 80% of them are now in mid to senior level leadership roles. And again, the average age when these All, when they started out as fellows, were 25. And so now this is where they are ending up. They're managing entire teams, and collectively we've seen that at this point of what the network is looking like, that they are overseeing $8 billion in funding and overseeing collectively more than 11,000 staff.

Why leadership investment matters in uncertain times

Note (AI): Heather argues that cutting leadership development in crises is a missed opportunity and that investing now is the best preparation.

Heather Anderson, guest · [34:50]Well, Daniel, I think you are for sure right that we are in uncertain times and that, the world is rapidly changing. And, you know, I'd say that there's more that we need leaders who can lead well in these conditions. So our resolve at GHC is to keep going as strong as we can. Because I, what we've seen, and we've seen this at times, you know, even historically …

Read the full passage (173 words, 34:50–35:57)

Heather Anderson, guest · [34:50]Well, Daniel, I think you are for sure right that we are in uncertain times and that, the world is rapidly changing. And, you know, I'd say that there's more that we need leaders who can lead well in these conditions. So our resolve at GHC is to keep going as strong as we can. Because I, what we've seen, and we've seen this at times, you know, even historically during different times of crisis or change, that, You know, often the leadership development or the systems change thinking really fall to the back burner, and that sort of the long-term thinking is, you know, taken out in favor of what's needed in the short term. And that's a real missed opportunity. We have to continue to be intentional, focused on getting out of this cycle of being reactive. And if we want to get ahead of other crisis, which, you know, no doubt we will also face in the future, you know, investing in leadership now is one of our surest bets.

Quotes

“because I, I can see what a mentor can do, I can see what a, a good leadership development program can do.”
— David Kamau, guest · [07:57]
“it's not systems that have agency, but that people do, and that it's people who shape and transform systems.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [10:25]
“I mean, we say once a fellow, always a fellow.”
— David Kamau, guest · [13:21]
“that trusted network of peers, you know, that's what keeps them going, even when the work can be lonely and overwhelming.”
— David Kamau, guest · [16:38]
“he called the GHC network his brain trust.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [20:14]
“architecture isn't resilient because it lasts, it's resilient because it adapts. And the same can be said for leadership.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [20:38]
“isolated leaders can burn out more quickly, they revert to rigidity, they are more likely to act out of fear than conviction.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [21:10]
“it's too much change too quickly for any single individual leader to be able to go at it alone.”
— David Kamau, guest · [32:47]
“you know, investing in leadership now is one of our surest bets.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [35:53]
“Organizations may close, organizations may shift, but no one can take away what and who you can offer and what you can do.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [37:44]
“people shouldn't get caught up in the vehicle. Like, that could change over time. But what's critical is, where am I heading to?”
— David Kamau, guest · [43:10]
“you are just as likely going to hear a story of alums working together professionally or hiring each other as you are to hear about how they have attended each other's weddings or are visiting each other during their family vacations”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [22:12]
“whether it's in program design, whether it's in delivery, whether it's in supply chain, whether it's in technology and, and advocacy and communication. And again, if you note the, the roles that they're, that they're in, a lot of these are non-clinical, and that's like a big part of who, who we, we work with”
— David Kamau, guest · [12:42]
“I think it's in the seven habits that we talk about, beginning with end in mind. And I think it's really important for, for folks to have a vision, a, a, a dream, a big picture of, of the world that they want to, to leave, the legacy they want to leave behind”
— David Kamau, guest · [42:33]
“our ecosystem work, which is also where we provide custom leadership development for organizations or institutions that also are looking to have leadership and management in a more specific way”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [36:09]
“We talk a lot about those of us that are doing leadership development that still sometimes it feels on the fringe, particularly in a massive issue like health and health equity”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [45:58]

What was said, by topic

Origin story

“I'm Heather Anderson, CEO of Global Health Corps, and, in terms of origin story, like many fellows and alumni at GHC, I didn't actually start my career in public health.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [02:02]
“And so my first seven years at GHC was scaling and supporting the expansion of our leadership programs in Africa and the US. And then when Barbara transitioned to the board after a decade of service in 2019, the board asked me to step in.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [04:20]
“So I'm David Kamau. I'm connecting from Nairobi, Kenya, and I'm currently the chief program officer at, Global Health Corps.”
— David Kamau, guest · [05:14]
“after ten years as an entrepreneur, almost ten years, I had the privilege to be part of, of a team that established one of the, the most renowned Africa, you know, leadership programs, the Young African Leaders Initiative.”
— David Kamau, guest · [06:24]

Non-linear careers and purpose

“I first packed up and drove a U-Haul truck to Chicago, from Chicago to Washington, D.C., and after dozens of informational interviews, landed a job at Planned Parenthood Global, which really launched my career for the next 20 years.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [02:48]
“I am also a mom to two kids who are seven and ten, and I want them to live in a world where more people have a better opportunity at leading a healthy life.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [39:22]
“So number one, that their career is likely not going to be linear, that a career working in global public health can go in a variety of ways, that they're likely to also have a long career.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [40:48]
“you will learn as much about what you like at an organization as much as what you don't like when you think about what's next.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [41:26]
“over time there might be different vehicles that they'll, they'll hop on and hop off of, but the destination is the same. They've got this vision that they're pursuing. And so, you know, people shouldn't get caught up in the vehicle.”
— David Kamau, guest · [43:00]
“And I said, the narratives is only once you look back that you can help connect the dots.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [44:13]

Leadership development gap

“during my time working in nonprofits, I saw firsthand the lack of investment in leadership and management in public health, especially for early career health professionals.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [03:42]
“We're seeing that a lot in actually, you know, organizations, even as complex as hospitals and universities too. The amount of support and training and preparation for those leaders is definitely absent.”
— Daniel Atlin, host · [04:55]
“often the leadership development or the systems change thinking really fall to the back burner, and that sort of the long-term thinking is, you know, taken out in favor of what's needed in the short term. And that's a real missed opportunity.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [35:23]
“And exactly in times like this, this is when they should be reinvesting in them, actually.”
— Daniel Atlin, host · [38:59]

Collective leadership

“I had the opportunity to be part of the leadership of the growing Pan-African movement that we were, that we're building, which was a network of over twenty thousand young leaders across Sub-Saharan Africa.”
— David Kamau, guest · [06:41]
“we've got to acknowledge that it's not systems that have agency, but that people do, and that it's people who shape and transform systems.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [10:23]
“and really it's, it's too much change too quickly for any single individual leader to be able to go at it alone.”
— David Kamau, guest · [32:46]
“It's actually, you know, building and cultivating in them those relationships. It's about building their capacity to collaborate.”
— David Kamau, guest · [33:51]

Mentorship

“As I was growing up, I didn't necessarily see myself as a leader or as a leader of leaders, and it took a mentor of mine years ago when I was nineteen to, to see the potential in me and call it out.”
— David Kamau, guest · [07:35]
“I strongly believe we have a responsibility to leave the world better than we found it. and lastly, just as someone sought me out and picked me out and mentored me, I feel like I have a responsibility to develop the next generation of leaders as well.”
— David Kamau, guest · [40:03]

GHC history

“Global Health Corps was founded in 2009, really in response to a clarion call from the global health giant, Dr. Peter Piot.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [09:23]
“And so for 16 years, GHC has been laser focused on developing the capacity of emerging leaders to understand and shape the levers of systems change and health. And so we're proud that we built a thriving network of 1,300 leaders and rising stars and growing from the US to Sub-Saharan Africa.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [10:33]
“I had the first cohort of fellows finish, and they said to me, well, what's next, Heather? I mean, the fellowship years, but we have a lot of work to do, and that was really the blossoming of the alumni program.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [21:48]

Public narrative

“Marshall Ganz and the story of Self, Us, and Now, and what is it to be able to tell your public narrative is a Core component of our fellowship training that every single person goes through,”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [10:57]

Fellowship model

“this is a fellowship program that spans nine months. Now in the US, the ages of our fellows are be, are twenty to thirty, and on the continent of Africa, it's between twenty-one to thirty-five,”
— David Kamau, guest · [11:50]
“So we're not taking them out of their work, we are building their capacity within the roles that they have in the organizations that they serve.”
— David Kamau, guest · [12:06]
“Now, the USLA Operates nationally, within the US, while the ALA operates within Malawi, Rwanda, Uganda, and Zambia, and, and both are led by national teams,”
— David Kamau, guest · [13:03]
“we're running our three programs of our leadership accelerators, our alumni program, and our ecosystem work, which is also where we provide custom leadership development for organizations or institutions”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [36:03]

Measuring leadership impact

“about 83% of them are holding mid to senior level leadership roles, and 70% of them collaborate with each other throughout.”
— David Kamau, guest · [13:45]
“our impact assessment found that because of this, this different parts that, that are around our fellows and alumni to support them and to keep them going, JSC fellows stay in the sector two times, at a rate of two times more than their peers.”
— David Kamau, guest · [17:12]
“leadership development, you know, interventions and initiatives, they defy traditional, you know, frameworks for monitoring, evaluating, and communicating impact, because some, you know, a lot of the work happens within the individuals, within the leaders.”
— David Kamau, guest · [26:49]
“coming out of a ten-year assessment in 2019, we created our first in-depth theory of impact. It really was a causal pathway about how our leadership approach strengthens health systems to advance health equity.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [27:51]
“this is why we spend a third of our programmatic expenses on the alumni part of our program, because we know that the start of the fellowship is just the beginning,”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [28:35]
“They're managing entire teams, and collectively we've seen that at this point of what the network is looking like, that they are overseeing $8 billion in funding and overseeing collectively more than 11,000 staff.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [29:17]
“from one of my first cohorts, Umba Zalira, she joined GHC as a fellow in 2014, 2015. She was working at the Ministry of Health in Malawi, and today she is a fierce advocate working for health and gender equity and overseeing health programming,”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [30:12]

Adaptability in crisis

“it's one of the countries that was hardest hit, you know, in terms of this, foreign aid cuts this year. I think it said that over forty percent of its national health budget, was slashed.”
— David Kamau, guest · [15:13]
“But one of the ones that I think especially have been relevant of years past and the current time is adaptability. And we've really seen this trait over and over, especially during acute crisis, whether we're talking about Ebola in 2014, the pandemic in 2020, massive foreign aid cuts this past year.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [18:51]
“we talk about that Organizations may close, organizations may shift, but no one can take away what and who you can offer and what you can do.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [37:43]

Peer networks and burnout

“But that trusted network of peers, you know, that's what keeps them going, even when the work can be lonely and overwhelming. And without that space to go to, to reflect and to hone their approaches, impact then can be very limited if they try to go it on their own.”
— David Kamau, guest · [16:38]
“I remember having a conversation with him, and he called the GHC network his brain trust. And that it was really his go-to resource for the support during unprecedented times,”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [20:12]
“we see anecdotally and otherwise that isolated leaders can burn out more quickly, they revert to rigidity, they are more likely to act out of fear than conviction.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [21:07]

Leadership as practice

“we talk about how leadership is a practice. It isn't something that you're going to finally achieve at one point in time, but you continue to work on.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [18:42]

Equity and power

“we work extremely hard to recruit and select Leaders who have been historically underrepresented in health leadership positions. And in particular, we strive for a community that is majority female identifying, majority people of color, including across Africa, and those early in their career.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [24:21]
“we also ensure that the staff, as David was Saying, you know, who work most closely with our fellows, alumni, and health partners have the agency to develop the program and have the positional authority to influence organizational priorities, budgets, as well as the strategy.”
— Heather Anderson, guest · [25:21]

Episode notes (as published)

From the episode notes published with the podcast.

Lasting impact happens inside people and adaptation is the critical skill. “That trusted network of peers is what keeps leaders standing when the work feels overwhelming.” In this episode of Messy with Daniel Atlin, I have a conversation with Heather Anderson (CEO) and David Kamau (Chief Program Officer) from Global Health Corps to explore what leadership really looks like when the stakes are high, the data is incomplete, and the path forward isn’t clear. GHC was built on a core belief that systems don’t have agency, people do. It is focused on building capacity in health systems through fostering leadership competencies and skills in early and mid-career leaders in Africa and the U.S. David and Heather they unpack how GHC built a “movement” of emerging health leaders across Africa and the U.S. and they do that through tapping into lived and shared experiences, building coaching muscles and a peer community, and harnessing the power of public narrative. They talk candidly about adaptability in crisis, navigating equity and power and preventing burnout in under-resourced systems. Key themes of this conversation are: - Leadership is a practice, not a position - Adaptability is the signature leadership trait - Networks prevent burnout and isolation accelerates It - Leadership development is a long game where impact doesn’t always show up immediately or cleanly - Careers are non-linear and purpose is the best anchor - Collective leadership is greater than singular heroic leadership We also talk about the relevance of Marshall Ganz’s work on public narrative and its importance to fostering movements and change. The work David and Heather do, and the impact of Global Health Corps is impressive. If you’ve ever wondered how leaders in a global non-profit keep going in the mess, this conversation is your blueprint. And if you want to support an amazing organisation follow and support GHC. Global Health Corps website and how to support them · Information about Marshal Ganz and his work on Public Narrative · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn

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